Interview With Nicola Rose, Director Of GABRIELLE & IN THE LAND OF MOONSTONES

Last year, I had the opportunity to not only view her short film Creative Block, but also to speak with writer, producer and director Nicola Rose. This year, she is back with not one, but two short films. I had the pleasure of not only viewing both of her latest shorts, but speaking with her as well. What you find is a filmmaker euphoric to find her own real life whimsy in the art of film, whose life around her provides an endless wealth of inspiration.

Stephanie Archer for Film Inquiry: Since we last spoke, how has it been since releasing Creative Block? 

Nicola Rose: It’s been good. Creative Block was released, let me see – I put that finally online sometime in the last year. And honestly, a lot of more people have seen it since then because festivals, although they’re concentrated, it’s naturally going to be a limited number of people who see it. So it’s been nice to randomly hear from people who have found it online and hear how it’s resonated with them.

I’m really glad to hear that because it was a really great film and I really love the message that you had for it.

Nicola Rose: I thought it was really important and some people don’t get it and some people get it right away.

For your latest film Gabrielle, what was the inspiration behind the idea for that one?

Nicola Rose: The inspiration most literally – no, you know what? I’m going to start with the most recent inspiration. I saw a wonderful film in the New York Children’s International Film Festival, which is one of my favorite festivals, and this film – you know, we all steal from each other, so I guess it’s fine to say. What inspired this film was called Sing, and it’s a Hungarian film. It’s pretty well known because it actually won the Oscar for Best Live Short two years ago, I think. And it’s an extraordinary little film that has to do with corruption that goes on within very, very tiny scale with the choir at an elementary school in Hungary and the little girl who is told by her teacher that she can’t stay in the choir because she’s not good enough.

And it turns out that, I don’t want to spoil the film, but it turns out the corruption is more widespread and goes way beyond just this one girl being mistreated by her teacher. I don’t want to spoil because it’s wonderful and you can get it really cheaply on Amazon. Long story short, the film is so good and it’s because of its pay off that I don’t want to spoil it because the payoff is so good. And so, I’ve watched it many more times and I see it leading up to that, but I did not keep coming the first time and it made me burst into tears, not because it’s sad – it’s not sad – but because it is so perfect. It is edited so perfectly. I really don’t cry at movies much, like maybe once or twice, but this was the time that I just remember the most just sort of melting. It was just the most extraordinary thing to see.

And so this dislodged a memory. I mean it wasn’t repressed or anything. It was just something that I don’t walk around everyday thinking about, which was that one of my ballet teachers when I was a kid did not particularly like me. There are other people she didn’t like either. But basically my thing was that I began ballet, the way the character Gabrielle does. And I wasn’t looking to be, obviously, wasn’t looking to be a ballerina. I was looking to kind of learn to dance and I might have chosen another kind of dance other than ballet. But that was what I wanted to try I guess when I was 12-13, and I was put in with little children who were at that time they’re like four years younger than you.

It’s not as bad as what happens to Gabrielle in the film where she’s put in with preschoolers, but you know 15 minutes so you have to go big with the contrast or go home. Putting her with nine year olds would have been a little less striking I think.

I agree.

Nicola Rose: Yeah, I mean the image is what it is. And it’s that image that after I saw this film Sing, my mind went in a completely different direction and I credit Sing for most of the direct inspirations. It was specifically that image that popped into my mind as I was walking through Chelsea afterwards and thinking, “oh my God, I think I know what my next film”. And it was this image of one big girl really trying her best but messing up in the midst of all these little girls. I’m like, why is she there?

I really did like seeing the ballet. There’s a little continuity between your work. With Creative Block was ice skating, which had a lot of fluidity and grace. So does ballet. So I just thought that was really, really great to see. There’s also this a strong concept of overcoming one’s weakness and finding success in her strengths.

Nicola Rose: Oh Gosh yes. That’s important to me.

And it really stood out. What are you hoping audiences will take away from this viewing? Maybe incorporate in their own lives, to push themselves forward?

Nicola Rose: What I want them to take away is that you have to know your worth. It’s not entirely on you because your friends who care about you are going to help you know it. It’s not that you have to believe it on your own, but you have to be able to carry that around with you, that you are worthy and that you are going to find what fits you and be able to express that. And that’s something that I still struggle with, because there are days I think sometimes I’m not good enough because somebody calls me something hurtful and it wasn’t fair. But in the end, you have to know that by your existence, you are the only one of you and you’re bringing something singular to the world. Hopefully, hopefully you are. I’d like to think of Gabrielle as being this very fluffy pink little film that looks very delicate and lacy, but actually it’s gritty underneath because it has to do revenge. [laughs]

While I don’t want anybody to say to get revenge on your teacher, that’s not the moral of the film for the kids at home, but the moral of the film is that you have to at the end of the day be able to stand on your own two feet, look yourself in the mirror and know your worth. You know when people are trying to tell you, you don’t have it.

I like how you say it, this grittiness underneath. There’s also a strong idea on the concept of bullying and how quickly it catches like wildfire.

Nicola Rose: Oh God, it really does. And that’s for a much longer story and it could be a much longer story.

Yeah, it definitely presented itself. You created it very well in the constructs, or the confinements, of the short film. And I really thought that the ballet gave it deeper enrichment to it.

Nicola Rose: Even more interesting to me is the middle school, you know, it’s like everybody’s done that. And ballet is kinda hardcore and the way that people act towards each other.

What idea did you have to bring in the bullying? Because you have the teacher but it extended to the students of the same age.

Nicola Rosa: As a child, and I’ve talked about this in a few interviews before, I actually was bullied pretty hard and pretty consistently, but it was by adults rather than children. And it did spread like wildfire. It was in my inner community in the town where I grew up. And I think basically I was really young, I was like 12-13, and I was very chatty, very lively, very brainy. And I think somebody, whether this dance teacher or theater teacher, somebody decided “she thinks she’s better than everybody else”. And that general idea, as far as I know, sort of started to spread. And it was a very, very concentrated space like the ballet school. And I certainly, I couldn’t have been the only kid to have received some treatment. I don’t feel special. [laughs]

I definitely think that I became a lightning rod for it because I was so oblivious, like, “oh, I hope you are my friend” – I found everybody was my friend. It didn’t occur to me that somebody would like want to bully. And I think, and especially children, this happens in very subtle ways. It happens in such subtle and minor, they’re not minor to the victim, but they’re such minor ways where it’s just, there’s some teacher who makes it really clear that these are the real kids. Whereas the kids over here, this other group, this is the group of second string kids that don’t even get to do the cool projects, they get to do the lesser stuff.

And I’ve seen it happen so many times. And it’s usually the really smart, awkward kids who really have something extraordinary to contribute to society that are in group two. I was always in group two stuff. [laughs] I don’t mean to imply  for a moment my childhood was bad. I know so many wonderful people who lifted me up and were my friends. But one of those tiny little girls that I took ballet with, she can’t wait to see this film. She hasn’t seen it yet. She is still my friend. And now she’s 27. I’m 31 and she’s no longer one of the little geeky kids that came up my way. She is still one of my very favorite friends.

Oh! That’s amazing that you get to share that and it’s like a full circle experience through your film.

Nicola Rose: I am certain she’s going to see and probably recognize examples of the old days and she’s probably gonna be the only one because I’m not in touch with anybody from back then except her. She is going to look at me and be like, “I know who that is!”. [laughs]

One of the things that really struck me, and this had to do with casting more than anything else, because then you cast really interesting actors the story evolves in ways your didn’t predict. And in this particular case of the actress playing Gabrielle, I had envisioned this character of Gabrielle one way, which was being, for lack of a better word, a little durpy. She’s always trying her best, works really hard. She’s kind of goofy. And that’s so not what we got from this girl. I mean you see it, that is who she is. She’s just got so much poise and grace and she is gonna stand up to her teacher and she is aware of what’s going on. I had this idea of her as being kind of unaware until it’s impossible to avoid what’s coming at her. And it says this girl is just hyper aware and grateful and poise and even if she knows she is not a dancer, she has that courage and she comes off as – her grit is going to pull her through. And it was so interesting how the story changed at that point. Because the sweetness of the girl is palpable, but also, there’s a lot of courage and strength to her that I didn’t expect to have as a natural preexisting thing in the performance. I was like great, let’s roll with this. [laughs]

Well it’s interesting because you say she’s not a dancer but she has the spirit of one. The grit, the grace, everything’s in the personality.

Nicola Rose: Well she takes dance classes. I mean she has a lot of training actually. You know, it could have worked with her being a non dancer, but I think the fact that she’s able to do it and she’s able to pick up that combination that they do with the audition, which is a hard combination. Like I can’t really do it, you know.

What was it like working with Valeriya Korennaya again?

Nicola Rose: She is the most talented lady. And she’s so versatile. And I didn’t know that until, I mean I knew how talented she was, I did realize what range she had until –  you know what happened? There was another actress I had kept actually in the role as a ballet teacher because I wanted to work with her and it didn’t work out. So Valeriya had said – either she said I’d like to audition for this or I said would you send me a tape for this, but I didn’t really – I had written the ballet teacher as this sort of fun condescending American smiles too much while she’s saying horrible things. Like a very different sort of take on a ballet teacher.

She sent in this tape that was frankly terrifying in the tape she sent in. And up until that point, I knew who she was as a person, she’s a lovely person, but she is neither that character, nor is she really Babu [in In the Land of Moonstones]  in the other movie. And um, This was a side of her I had not seen and she’s just basically from the iciest circle of Hell I guess love to go. And I saw this and said,”oh my God”. And I sent it to my parents who were like, “oh my God”. So I though well we have a strong contender and there were five or six other actresses that I called back for that role and they were all strong, really strong. Like there was no weak link and she still got it.

That’s incredible.

Nicola Rose: Well, she’s incredible. She was great.

I saw Gabrielle first before In the Land of Moonstones and it was really great seeing that contrast in her performance.

Nicola Rose: That’s the better order to watch them in. [laughs]

[laughs] I was also wondering who did the drawings for Gabrielle?

Nicola Rose: Oh, it’s Jennifer Himes who did the same drawings in Moonstones.

Oh, that was my next question!

Nicola Rose: She’s a wonderful, talented artist who works as a freelance cartoonist and she lives in Florida in Orlando and she worked for Universal Studios.

Oh Wow!

Nicola Rose: And I knew her from puppetry cause I trained in puppetry in France years ago. And then when I came back to this country, and I made it my goal to meet as many puppeteers as I could. And neither Jen or I really remember how we met, but we became good friends ands here whenever I can, like whenever she is in New York or I’m Florida. She’s just the best to work with because despite the long distance – it’s a long distance relationship – it makes it easier to say, “can you do it more like this?” And she’ll be like, “oh well send it back to me”. She’ll, like actors, will also take things in directions I didn’t expect. I love drawing. I love how they are part of these two films. Obviously in very different ways because in Gabrielle they are not active, but they are so much a part of her.

That was actually really interesting. They added to the character of Gabrielle, but in Moonstones the animation and the artwork add this authenticity to a young girl relaying her story of her first love. I was wondering, have you ever considered directing an animated short?

Nicola Rose: I would love to. I would absolutely love that. I hope the opportunity comes up. I try to put it out into the world every so often. You know, I’m looking to direct things, but I don’t think myself –  I mean I think people by and large, they really do direct their on things, which is both good and bad because not everybody’s a director. I know that because I wasn’t always one and I just became one and it’s really, really hard and more power to people who can do it and do it well. I don’t mean to say, oh, not everybody can do it, but not everybody can do it. It’s actually really, really hard. So, it’s great people try, but sometimes I feel as though there should be more opportunities to go around to those of us who have really been in the trenches.

Not to stick with the artwork, but I was wondering where did the idea in Moonstones to not only incorporate the drawings but the interlacing of the art and the animation come from – like the blinking hearts.

Nicola Rose: Oh Gosh, you’re asking me something, I don’t remember. Wow. Yeah, that’s a great question. I know how it happened, it was of necessity and it became something that was more of a visual ornamentation that looks really nice. But it started out because there were things that I couldn’t show, for instance climbing the tree to the very top – nobody was going to do that. The duck going out to sea. I didn’t expected that to become a drawing, but it has to because that duck is not going float. It isgoing to come right back.

So the drawings, I had this idea that the girl – she never really has a name – was at home writing this letter to Boris as a framing device for the story. That doesn’t happen in the book, but it was an idea that the author of the original book had. She was telling me about a school project that school kids in France had done, they read the book and then they wrote letters from the girl to Boris. And I thought, “oh my gosh, that’s such a good idea”. And you know, she kept those letters, and I never saw them but it gave me an idea that what is the whole book is actually a letter to Boris. And because so much of it is told in retrospect, like an adult looking back on things that she remembers, some savors and regrets, so I thought, why don’t we use that as a framing device?

Those things combined the necessity of having some things be animated. I turned into the idea that she’s drawing the whole thing as it happens and that’s all part of the letter. Also, I have a younger sister who draws constantly and since she was a kid, she never gone around without a sketchbook in her hand, I think that made its way to both Moonstones and certainly the character of Gabrielle.

There was a music box in Moonstones and a snow globe in Gabrielle.

Nicola Rose: Oh my gosh, yes.

Do these have any significance to you or even more specifically to each film?

Nicola Rose: Yes, huge significance to all of that. I think the music honestly makes film and there couldn’t be more difference between the stories of how Moonstones got its stuff and Gabrielle got its. With Moonstones I made playlists of Russian music , because this is a highly Russian  influenced story, and I – what exactly happened there; I had compiled a list of composers that I wanted us for that movie. And some of it didn’t fall into the public domain and some of it did and some of it didn’t end up being Russian. There’s a lot of German influences there too. And then there’s music box stuff, which is to represent childhood.

And all of that was kind of what I started from that, and the idea of the drawing and writing, to put the film together, especially because the first thing I was doing with the original source material was translating it into English. And that’s a really interesting thing to do when you’re writing a script to because it shows up all sorts of different colors that were not in the original and things change and characters change. The character Olga is actually a merging of two characters  from the book. There was something else I was going to say…

Oh, the music of Gabrielle. So there’s a wonderful Czech composer, he lives in the Czech Republic, his name is Martin Brunner. I had heard his music on the radio and I didn’t know who did it, I just knew this is the modern, classical music and I like it and I think this would make a great soundtrack for, uh, one of them them I was thinking a dance movie and imagine my surprise when he really eagerly gave over the permission to do that. So that was pretty slam dunk.

For In the Land of Moonstones, I found it interesting that you decided to have the family continues to speak in their native tongues while the girl, Boris and Babu speak in English. What was your thought process behind that decision?

Nicola Rose: Well, practically speaking, the two children don’t speak Russian, but in context of the story, I was thinking about all these kids that I know who are kids of immigrants who either don’t speak English or speak the other language at home and how a lot of the time their kid can understand the language, but they responded in English and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that, you know, the parents talking in Chinese and the kid is like, “Hey, I know, I understand in English”. And I’ve seen it so much. And with Babu, I was just thinking, well,  she [the girl] is close with Babu she’s going to speak, even if the parents speak Russian with her, I feel as though Babu would speak what the girl was most comfortable with. And I don’t think the kids being first gen, I don’t think they would speak Russian with each other. That would just be weird.

I love the coming of age aspect throughout Moonstones. The first love, the first parties, discovering self identity. Where do you imagine your character growing from here?

Nicola Rosa: You know, I have the unusual authority to speak on that because the character actually is the author of the original book. She never did forget her cousin. She doesn’t have a photograph of him or anything, but I think he was very large in her memory because I mean she’s grown. She has children that are grown now. She’s in her 50s. She’s one of my best friends, I see her every time I go to Paris. I’m going there in a few months in December to see her and I stay with her when I go sometimes. It’s really nice. She became a writer  – I don’t think this was her first book, but I think it was something like second or third and she told me that it was sort of a hidden memory that came to her very quickly while she’d gone to Russia for work and she was on an airplane Moscow back to Paris.

And all of a sudden this memory of her second cousin, what happened to him, because the whole thing is rearranged, and in the movie it’s highly rearrange. But it’s basically all true it’s the bare bones of it. And she remembered him and all of a sudden just this whole painful memory like came out really fast. And I think she wrote the book in basically one go, one flight. Which you cane tell when you read it, which is no disrespect. I have never loved a book more than I love that book. I mean something else that I’ve reacted to that strongly and I mean it makes me want to cry when I look at it. She said that it just came in one gulp, and you can see it when you’re reading it, there are details that come back again and again. You think, “the funeral, you mentioned that”, you can tell it’s almost a stream of consciousness, but it’s so eloquent. It’s the most eloquent stream of consciousness you’ll pretty much ever to see.

What is the story her grandmother’s reading to her throughout the Short?

Nicola Rose: Oh, it is a The Little Prince!

Okay. I wasn’t 100% sure.

Nicola Rose: No, but it’s a very cut up and it is retranslation because, although book is in public domain, I couldn’t really figure out if translations were in public domain. So I kind of fudged with it.

I know you just announced your cast for your next short.

Nicola Rose: Yes, Yes! It’s coming up.

It was very exciting to see. I think it was what yesterday or maybe the day before. Is there anything you can tell us about your next one?

Nicola Rose: Yeah, absolutely. So I can tell you that it’s a story of a girl genius and a boy bully in middle school who become unlikely allies after first hating each other . She has to be his math tutor and they discover a very unlikely shared goal to be in a beauty pageant. So itt has a bit to do with gender identity, and that’s an undercurrent, but really it has to do with unlikely friendships and having each other’s back when nobody expects it.

Well you also have a very strong female leads in all of your shorts, so I’m very excited to see how this one pans out as well.

Nicola Rose: This little girl is extraordinary. So I think she’s going to be a very unusual, funny lead.

I look forward to seeing it when you’re all finished.

Nicola Rose: Thank you so much. I can’t wait to show you. Thank you for taking the time to ask me all this.