Interview With Martha Frances Williams & Shani Hadjian On Queer Film & Their New Short UP OR OUT

I had the opportunity to meet Martha Frances Williams at the Queens World Film Festival in March when she wrote and starred in her short Oatmeal, and was delighted to see her new project Up or Out! Up or Out is a refreshing story about love and competition in the Big Apple.

I wrote to Martha Frances and Shani Hadjian to discuss LBGTQ+ issues, life in New York, and asked for some advice for future filmmakers!

Samantha Celentano for Film Inquiry: I think it’s important to have gay and lesbian characters in stories where the plot is not about their sexual identity, it just so happens to be a part of them. In other words, it normalizes the lives of the LGBTQ+ community by reminding everyone they aren’t different from straight people! Was this a main goal when making this project?

Shani Hadjian: YES!!! Thank you! This is precisely why I wrote this story. By showcasing LGBTQ+ characters in plots that have nothing to do with their sexual identity, we are providing something for non-LGBTQ+ community members to relate to. I wanted to show the joy that we experience and take the focus off of sexuality.

Martha Frances Williams: This was certainly something that Shani and I made sure to really explore overall for the project, it was important to walk the walk if you will. In all of our production details, marketing and festival conversations; we have made sure to really embody what Shani set out to create and support the story we are telling.

The promotion storyline reminded me of how New York is a cutthroat city and the competition is brutal no matter what industry you’re in. And to add to that, there’s also the aspect of parental pressure. Was there a particular inspiration for that aspect of the film?

Shani Hadjian: I think as an actor, that “cut throat NYC mentality” is a way of life for me, and I needed something to feed the dramatic plotline and complicate the relationship a bit, so adding this competition was a must! When I was writing the script, I was talking with one of my partner’s best friends, Lori, about my need for a reason the characters would be rivals and she explained to me about Up or Out contracts.I instantly knew that would be the wedge between these two characters.

When you were casting, did you already have in mind who would play Izzy? Lori Laing was lovely! And did you, Shani, always intend to play Lucy?

Shani Hadjian: Martha Frances, our producer, brought in Lori for auditions and right off the bat I knew she would be in the film. We auditioned everyone for multiple roles, but I had a few demands: Isabella and Lucy had to be female identifying and one of the friends had to be GNC— there is not enough positive representation of gender-queer and non-binary folk and I knew I wanted an actor that identifies as such playing one of these characters with proper pronouns accepted by all. This film could have featured Lori in every role, otherwise, though! She is fantastic and we are very lucky to have her. I did not always intend to play Lucy! I read for all the roles as well and this is the role Natasha, our director, thought fit best. It was extraordinary being a part of it as an actor.

Martha Frances Williams: I have been a fan of Lori’s since I was on the producing team of another film, she came in and while we didn’t cast her for that project, I knew I wanted to work with her in the future. When we started thinking about who could be the right person to play Izzy, I naturally thought of Lori. I had my fingers crossed the whole time in the audition room, I knew she would kill it, but I always want the whole creative team to naturally come to their own decisions; and I am so glad she was a favorite!

Martha Frances, what attracted you to this project?

Martha Frances Williams: I read a lot of scripts and consider a lot of projects, but I always come back to the person and Shani not only wrote a story that she really believes in, but she embodies the lightheartedness and drive that her script conveys. I read Shani’s feature length screenplay, which we adapted to create this short, and I was really attracted to the care and attention that went into telling a romantic comedy story. Not only does it entertain but there’s a larger purpose one that’s needed, and I love that the audience isn’t being force-fed a message; it’s enjoyable. I also grew up watching rom-coms with my mom and it was a perfect way to work on something that felt like a childhood dream come true in an honest and updated way.

Izzy says she doesn’t believe in fate, but it seems that fate has found her!  Do you think competition will override romance for Lucy and Izzy?

Shani Hadjian: We are hoping to continue the story and have answers for our audience with a feature film! We are in the developmental stages and looking for some funding if you know anyone!

Martha Frances Williams: Yes, we are currently developing the feature which explores these plotlines further and pushes the characters into new and exciting directions. We are in the early stages of seeking seed funding and looking to secure investors with the same commitment to story and community.

Do you have any advice for young filmmakers wanting to make their first short film?

Shani Hadjian: I think something I’m really proud of is the fact that I did it; I followed through and created something I wanted to create. That’s all it is! Making it happen. So put together something on your iPhone if you must! Just start creating and talking to people who are like-minded people. I know a lot of people who have ideas, but majority of them don’t do anything with them. Do it! We took a dinky camera and filmed a teaser to help us fundraise, and then had the funds to make a short! We used our connections within the community and past projects to create a crew, and then we went into production. It is, in actuality, more complex than that, but ultimately that’s all it is: making  it happen.

Martha Frances Williams: I think Shani said it best; just make something, then do it again. It’s a process like anything, and you only get better as you practice. Failing sometimes can also be really beneficial and lead to some great unintended results. So I’m a big fan of falling on your face if you must, it’s all a part of the journey and at the end of the day it should be fun.

Film Inquiry would like to thank Martha Frances Williams and Shani Hadjian for taking the time to speak with us.