Interview With CALIFORNIA DREAMS Director Mike Ott: “It Was My Own Kind Of Dream Come True”

Nearly a year ago I was planning my schedule for the 60th San Francisco International Film Festival pretty conservatively, seeing only the major docs coming out of Sundance and the like, of which there were many. Noting my tastes, the festival’s press coordinator suggested a film I had dismissed outright from director with whom I was totally unfamiliar; Mike Ott‘s California Dreams. Boy was I a fool. Read my review here.

I know this phrase gets bandied about way too frequently, but California Dreams is unlike anything I’ve seen before; it’s a film entirely unto itself. Loosely centered around the enigmatic and enthralling Cory Zacharia‘s quest to get enough money to fly to Germany in order to start in an independent production, the film freely vacillates between direct cinema and fictional scenes, without too much concern for differentiating between the two.

Following the festival, Mike was sweet enough to humor my incessant badgering as to the reality of his film over the phone. As there are some key spoilers, particularly to a last scene sure to delight documentary fans, I highly recommend watching the film before continuing. We had a delightfully long conversation, the below has been edited for some brevity.

Arlin Golden for Film Inquiry: So yeah, getting into California Dreams now, not to be crass or anything, but the question on my mind is “what did I just watch?”

Mike Ott: (laughs) Totally. Yeah.

I mean like, you know, I’m talking it up to everyone I know, but like I just don’t even really know how to summarize it to people.

Mike Ott: And that’s definitely one of the problems that we had when we finished it. Like, what to categorize it as, and like, even how to talk about it, you know, like how do you even write a synopsis for it? Because it’s such a weird mix of…of all kinds of things. Yeah. I don’t know man, I don’t have a good answer to that.

(laughs)

Mike Ott: I know! ‘Cause I’m still trying to like, you know, when people talk to me about it, like, “what is the movie?” I’m always struggling with how to frame it,

Yeah. Well, I mean like I really only do docs, I kind of live in the doc world and like typically I think coming out of a film like yours, which, you know, is obviously a hybrid

Mike Ott: Yeah.

I might tend to feel like, you know I don’t know if betrayed is the right word, but maybe a little miffed about it. But I didn’t feel any of that coming out of California Dreams. It was just such a great experience, and just such an enjoyable movie. I think what’s real and what isn’t, is almost besides the point, you know? It’s just a good film. But at the same time…What’s real, and what isn’t?

Mike Ott: Yeah, yeah. When I was watching Whore’s Glory glory last night, have you seen that?

Yeah.

Mike Ott: Whore’s Glory by Michael Glawogger, he’s incredible. But so he did these three: Workingman’s Death, Megacities, and Whore’s Glory. And they’re all these like beautifully shot docs. Kind of like, not really a total narrative. Just, these like portraits of people and places and like, you watch it, and you don’t know how does it, ‘cause he gets these moments. And then I started thinking about like, there’s all these interesting things with these prostitutes and these scenes that he’s doing, which I was thinking  “So much of this has to be set up” in a way? But it feels like a documentary. And then I was just thinking like, “does it matter?” you know? Like, what the truth that he’s getting at is still there, whether it’s like set up or not, you know?

Yeah, definitely.

Mike Ott: It’s kind of the thing with documentary always. Everything is this artifice in a way which I’ve been kind of obsessed with. I saw Kiarostami’s Close Up, you know, years ago, and it like totally like changed my mind. I’m like, what is a narrative? What is a documentary? You know? And how those things blur together.

So It sounds like you’re most interested in kind of the central truth of the story you’re telling, and then whatever means you use to get to that truth, you know, just kind of let it fall where it may?

Mike Ott: Yeah, I mean, I’m also interested in, you know, just kind of the journey of making a movie. I feel like the first time I made a film like I set out to make a traditional narrative movie and I thought like, I knew how to make a movie and how to be like “el director” and you know, you had to know everything, you know what I mean? And then I made that movie and I was so bored with it and I realized all the things I liked about the movie where all the things that I didn’t come up with. And so I think like, you know, this movie was so collaborative, we shot in chunks over two years. So we were able to kind of figure out what it was going to be. When we started, we kind of had no idea; we were just doing the auditions, which were basically just asking people to come in and do a scene from their favorite film.

Right. About those auditions: was that totally blind? You’re just like putting up a post and people would come in? Cause I mean I noticed…Carol Kraft stuck out to me.

Mike Ott: Oh yeah!

From the Tim & Eric stuff and I mean, you know, the Dog impersonator is obviously just an outlandish character where if you were to walk in and feel just like, you know, God giving you a gift in your lap, you know.

Mike Ott: (laughs)

Was there any scouting at all? Or was it all…

Mike Ott: Yeah I mean the hard part is that I live pretty close to LA. It was hard to get people who weren’t just handsome dudes and like hot girls that are out of work actors, you know? Which I didn’t want. So we were definitely trying to figure out the best way to put up ads but not just be like boring, kind of like run of the mill handsome people or people that want to be an actor or had the chance.

So we were putting up flyers in my hometown, like at dive bars and grocery stores, stuff like that. Carol had done a music video for me, years ago for this band called the Cave Singers. and I’ve always thought that she’s so incredible so I had her come in. The Dog the Bounty Hunter guy lives in my hometown, that storage unit that he runs is like ten minutes away from me. So I knew him already. So some of the people I knew and then others I was just trying to find. It was really hard man, you know, like ultimately I think over the six months that we did the audition, it was really hard to get the information to the people who we were trying to find.

And then it seems like you kind of needed those people and their experiences and their personal perspectives in order to kind of figure out and craft what the rest of the movie was going to be, you know? We would meet somebody, they’d tell us a little something, and then it seemed to me like there was a scripted scene that follows the…kind of takes elements of what we were just hearing about and incorporates it into this meta-narrative. So I mean, was there any part that was pre-planned or you’re just kind of feeding off of what you’re being given by all these auditions?

Mike Ott: Yeah I mean it originally started…for a long time we had a 40 minute cut that was literally just a collage of kind of scenes, just trying to figure out what it was gonna be. And I didn’t know if it was going to be like just these vignettes, you know, these kind of mini-portraits of these different people, which is kind of interesting, you know, but I don’t know…you can only take that so far, it can only be so long. Then we kind of toyed with the idea of making them all these individuals shorts that you could play by themselves and then you can link them up into like a feature. So I don’t know. Then we finally kind of realized that Cory [Zacharia] would be the through line to kind of connect everyone, and using his story to bridge everyone together.

So this is not your first film with Cory and then I imagine that, you know, you planned to utilize him for the film at some point before you started. What’s his relationship to the rest of them? I mean having a prior relationship with you…is there any sense that he was like a plant almost? Or…you know what I’m saying?

Mike Ott: Yeah. I mean, what’s interesting about Cory is, you know, like this is my fifth movie with him and all my films have kind of been about trying to figure Cory out, you know? And more and more as I made films it was kind of like setting up scenes where he was the only one who didn’t know what was going on, just to kind of see how he would react. And more and more as my films went on. And this one was the most where he was like usually the only person not in the know, like the acting class scene for instance. He was the only one who…he thought it was a real acting class and everyone else was there knowing that he was coming in and thinking it was an acting class.

Wow.

Mike Ott: But it was funny because by the end of it, they all thought…all the people in the class except me and him were like pulling one over on them. They thought they were on some like weird prank show.

Oh weird! I mean that scene really stood out because I think he gives like a, you know, beyond halfway decent performance ultimately. And it just stands in such stark contrast to his Outsiders monologue that we see a couple times, where that’s what really had me wondering. It’s like “can this guy act? Is this whole thing just like a really amazing Andy Kaufman thing?“

Mike Ott: We have this joke about him that he’s like f*cking with us like in an Andy Kaufman way that like one day he’s going to show up to my house in a limousine. It’d be like, “Hey Mike” you know? Like “this whole time I actually live in the Hollywood Hills, come on over.” So that’s the mystery of Cory because it’s hard to tell a lot of times how aware he is of what’s going on, you know?

Like he, you know, he’s very smart, he’s very savvy, so sometimes I don’t know if he’s 10 steps ahead of me, you know? But what’s great about him is when he does the interviews in the car and stuff, like he has this amazing ability to disarm people and get them to open up and talk in a way that I never could, you know.

He just has the balls to ask the most insane questions.

Yeah. Was that you in the car with Cory when the scene kind of flips and Cory’s answering some questions?

Mike Ott: No so that was like when we shot this film I made called Pearblossom Hwy and that was a scene. That was just, we were waiting for the sun to change with the two actors in a car and they just started talking about sex. That was the first thing we had and that was kind of the sense of the idea of doing these car interviews based on that one. Also like I didn’t want to do a documentary that was just like a bunch of talking heads and trying to figure out how to get people to talk about things without it being me just firing off questions.

So were those scenes…those scenes seemed to me to be the most “documentary”. Am I correct in that assumption or…?

Mike Ott: Yeah, I mean those were basically… I would send him in and I would give him some topics to talk about. But you know, the great thing about Cory is he always forgets what I tell him and he just talks about whatever he wants. So you know, most of those scenes were like we would shoot for like two hours, then I would either be texting him questions to ask or he would just go on some weird tangent that would sometimes be much more interesting than what I came up with. And then based on those a lot of times we would shoot stuff based on what was said in the car.

Got it. The thing you mentioned about sort of like, you know, what Cory’s aware of and like how conscious he is of the overall, goals and stories of the film. I feel like, going back to Carol Kraft, a lot of the time with Tim and Eric when they were using a lot of these non-conventional actors, the criticisms on them were like, “you’re exploiting these people. Are they even in on it? Do they know that they’re the ‘butt of the joke’?”, even though I don’t really see it that way. How do you view that sort of dicey territory of like, you know, obviously these are engaging and entertaining characters, but they’re being very open and honest with us about their deepest dreams and desires and there’s at least a small degree of schadenfreude there. What’s your take on that?

Mike Ott: I think, you know…I mean, first of all, my argument is always like, in this movie especially,everyone was exploited. Like me too. You know what I mean? Like, I worked on this movie for three years and never made a cent, you know, like exploitation is across the board, in just making the movie. But also I would say usually people who have this idea that it’s exploitative usually says more about the way that they’re viewing the characters than the way that I’m viewing them. You know what I mean? It’s kind of this idea that like, you can only make a movie with handsome people and beautiful people that you can only make a movie with people like this as long as it’s like “oh wow their story’s so sad” and you have to feel bad for them, cry for them. You know what I mean? Which I think is actually much more insulting.

It’s like, why can’t Patrick [Llaguno] be the lead in a movie? You know? Why is it not OK for him to be funny? Or why is it not OK for him to talk about sex? Like you only want to see movies about guys like Patrick as long as it’s in like in a Judd Apatow movie and it’s a real handsome dude with glasses on and his hair combed over, you know what I mean? Which I just think is so false and you know, if you are interested in those kinds of stories, like, sometimes life is uncomfortable, ugly, you know, that’s just how it is.

And I mean that’s also what’s beautiful about it, you know, like Cory and Patrick talking in the car about sex to me is like such a beautiful scene of these two guys who like…it’s the real version of Freaks and Geeks, you know what I mean? It is the real version of two people trying to understand sex, trying to talk about it, kind of trying to be macho but not really sure how to do it. And I mean, I think that’s what’s lovely about it and yeah, it’s funny and silly, but like I think that’s OK, you know, and you laugh with people you love. I think people are laughing thinking that it’s mean says more about like their perspective on those characters, which I think is interesting, you know?

Yeah. No, a hundred percent. One of my favorite lines was in that scene with Cory and Patrick where Cory says “Oh, I know all about 69-ing”

Mike Ott: “I know what 69’s all about!” (laughs) What’s amazing about that is, I’ve seen that now like 5,000 times, and like, I still laugh every time. (laughs)

Oh man, it’s so good.

Mike Ott: Also when he’s in the car with Neil [Harley] and Neil’s talking about, you know, like it costs more money because it’s more material and Cory’s like “I heard about that!” (laughs) I mean, he’s so genius. He’s such a comedic genius it’s insane.

So yeah, that’s how you see him, you see him as a comedic genius? Because, I mean, this is, I’ve got to go into your back catalog, but it’s almost…just meeting Cory for the first time on screen, you haven’t really seen anything like that in a movie before. Like his demeanor, his performance, it’s all so convoluted, you know, is this a character? Is this a real guy? It’s just like a very unique presence.

Mike Ott: Well, he, you know, Cory, he’s just a true gem of a person, you know? My sound designer Jan [Bezouska], who’s, all three of us are best friends, and Jan always refers to him as like, just a total angel, like he’s an angel and an alien both wrapped into one, you know? Like he comes into everything he’s experiencing like a little kid, it’s just like everything is new and exciting. And what’s great about Cory is he has no sense of irony or sarcasm, which I think is a really rare gift that he has.

Definitely.

Mike Ott: Whatever he says he means. He’s not like most people trying to be complicated and ironic, which is something I really love about him. I don’t think there’s a lot of characters in cinema like that. I think the only other one is Mark Borchardt from American Movie, who has kind of a similar kind of outlook on the world.

So I mean, that cameo at the end…I like, I jumped out of my seat. I like vocally exclaimed in the theater, like, “what?! Oh my god!”

Mike Ott: Oh that’s so cool.

How did that come about?

Mike Ott: I mean American Movie is like, my all time favorite documentary. I’ve probably seen that movie more than any other film. I was at AFI Fest a couple years ago and I was out smoking and this volunteer was out there and these two old people couldn’t get into a movie and she gave them the tickets and got them into the film, and I just said to her “man, that was really cool that you did that, you went out of your way.” So we started talking, and her name was Dawn Borchardt, and I was like, you know that’s a great name! Two of my favorite names. My Mom’s name is Dawn and my favorite filmmaker’s Mark Borchardt. And she’s like, “that’s my dad!” And I was like, “holy f*cking shit!”

(laughs) Oh my god, that’s wild!

Mike Ott: So we just became friends and then me and my DP started talking about it. He was like, “well why don’t we reach out to Mark and see if we can get him? You know, we have nothing to lose.” So she put me in touch, and it was, man, it was like…I mean it was my own kind of dream come true to have him in the movie.

Yeah, I mean you hear his voice and the thought is like, “I know this voice”, like, “who is this? What is happening here? It can’t be what I think it is.” And then there’s the reverse cut and you’re like, “Holy Shit.”

Mike Ott: Ho-ly shit.

So when you’re doing that, you know, you’re definitely making a bold statement as to the reality of the film. How do you see that final scene operating within the context of the film as a whole?

Mike Ott: I think for one, it speaks to me, I mean because I think in the film, every character gets their kind of dream to come true, right? Like Patrick has his first lap dance, you know, Neil gets to do some of his writing, Carolan [J. Pinto] gets to give her Oscar speech. And for me it’s like I get to have Mark Borchardt in my movie.

Awesome.

Mike Ott: So in a way it’s something of my own kind of California dream coming true. But also just, you know, I think all the other films with Cory, I’ve always ended on kind of a down note. Like the sense of realism and for once he has like a Hollywood ending in one of the movies, you know, where he actually like…something good happens to him and kind of pushing this idea of the Hollywood ending in the movie.

And then he was so beautiful when I met him, I wish I would’ve filmed it. Mark showed up to set and we were shooting that scene where Cory’s walking down saying goodbye to everyone at the motel. So it was total chaos because usually I would only have Cory and one of the other characters, and that day all the maniacs were there. It was total pandemonium trying to negotiate all these really strong personalities. And so Mark shows up, and man, I’m like a teenage girl, like, so nervous. I’m so excited to talk to him, you know.

So I bring him in to the little craft service table and I bring Cory in and then I go back outside. I’m outside for like two minutes and Jan comes out and Jan’s like “dude, you have to go in, you’re not going to believe what’s happening.” So I go in, I’m literally gone for two minutes, Cory’s crying, he’s told Mark his entire life story, and I just come in at the tail end of it. And all I hear is Mark say to him, [puts on Mark Borchardt voice] “listen man, you’ve got to ask yourself, man, you know, when you’re walking down the street and you run into Joe Blow, you got to ask yourself, does Joe Blow have your best interest in mind? I don’t think so.”

And Cory just says [puts on Cory Zacharia voice] “that’s some really good advice, bro.”(laughs) Just those two together, like my two favorite characters in cinema, like talking about, you know… just having them in that room was so amazing.

That sounds incredible. And I gotta say your Mark is very on-point.

Mike Ott: (laughs) Yeah I called him like a month ago to see if he was going to be at SXSW. He’s like “nah man, I’m not going to be there.” It’s like, well if you want I’ll send you a link, you know, if you want to check out the movie. And he’s like, “Uh-uh! No way! Not gonna happen! If you think I’m watching that movie on a small screen, you’re crazy man.” I was like “nononono I was just offering…” He was actually…he was acting as though like I was pushing it on him.

That’s amazing. Like as the credits come up too, when I was re-watching it last night, I tried to just tune my ear as best I can to get like all his German film conversation before it fades out.

Mike Ott: (laughs)

Totally. But I mean like, you know, he’s like a, like a Jodorowsky or something where if you just get him goin’…I could just lie back for an hour and just listen to him go.

Mike Ott: He’s so incredible. He carries around this weird little notebook with him and the entire time you’re talking to them, all he’s doing is taking notes on everything that you’re saying. In a really nice handwriting and it’s just like in this book and he’s just writing everything down. Like he’s such a, you know, like Encyclopedia of cinema too, which is so great.

Yeah. Have you seen his UFO doc [The Dundee Project] that he’s been working on?

Mike Ott: I’m dying to. I just saw the trailer, which is incredible.

Yeah no, I’m looking forward to it too, but I just haven’t heard a lot about it.

Mike Ott: I read a really funny review though of it, like, where it’s just a review of the Q&A, and every time in the Q&A when he doesn’t know what to say he says to the audience member, “how you doin’, man?”

What he says to Mike [Schank] the entire time in American Movie.

Right. Well, yeah, no, that’s awesome that you were able to bring them in on your film, and like, congratulations on a dream come true, I guess.

Mike Ott: Oh, thanks man. I would say like, if this is the last movie I made I can die, like, a happy man.

(laugh) No, I hear you 100%. So just real quick, you know, you clearly, working on a number of films with Cory, have developed a personal relationship, a friendship. You know, the relationship between like a director and an actor is kind of really different than the relationship between a director and a documentary subject.

Mike Ott: Sure.

So how do you sort of navigate those waters in terms of…you know, there’s this idea that you need to maintain distance from your subjects in order to keep that air of authenticity. So you’re not, you know, favoring them or anything…

Mike Ott: I know him better than anyone else and at the same time, he’s still like a total mystery to me. There’s so much of him that I don’t…still don’t totally understand, you know? So it’s definitely a bizarre relationship that we have. It’s kind of like a big brother, little brother relationship.

And so within the movie it always becomes really weird because he’s always down for anything, you know? I think the only time he was getting uncomfortable was the last scene with his mom because I think they started talking about things that I think were just literally weird between them. Talking about him wanting to be an actor. And that’s why his reaction in that scene is so intense. But that was the only moment where we stopped because he just said like, “I don’t want to do”… you know, it’s like, “I don’t want to talk about any of this anymore.”

Oh wow.

Mike Ott: Yeah…But other than that, you know, he’s always excited to shoot, you know, he’s always had the dream of being an actor, but at the same time he has this like über kind of slacker thing going on where, you know, he’s waiting for someone else like me to show up at his door and basically like pick him up, take him to set, give him marijuana, you know?

Yeah, I don’t know, it’s definitely the strangest relationship I’ve had with a performer but also like the best, because, you know, what I love about working with Cory is he’s he’s not like any other performer. He forgets what he’s supposed to say. He says whatever he wants, every take is different. It’s always more interesting than any other actor I’ve ever worked with.

Since you brought that scene up, you know, again… I don’t mean to keep going back to the reality, but like, to get things straight… in my mind, that whole plotline about Henning [Gronkowski] and this production in Germany. That eventually seemed to me to ultimately be fabricated and then there’s this scene where he’s discussing the possibility of going to Germany with his mom. But are you saying that kind of the sentiment of the conversation they’re having there are real within the sort of official narrative?

Mike Ott: I met Henning at a festival in Vienna like two years ago. And um…one second, I’m just trying to get my dog in the car. (to dog) C’mon! Hey! Get in there ya little…go! Go go go!

So I met him at a festival and he was at the festival trying to cast a movie. He was going to shoot in Berlin and he was like, “I’m looking for this American. He’s like a stoner who never has any money.” And he was describing it and I was like, “well, I think I have the person for you.” He came to LA like a week later and stayed with me and met Cory and they totally hit it off, and he had offered Cory the part and I kind of knew it wasn’t going to happen just because I knew that Cory would never get his shit together enough to go.

So it was always kind of in the back of the mind, that whole scenario. And so we just had Henning call Cory, not telling Cory what it was going to be about, that the movie was still on. So I mean it was fabricated in the sense that it wasn’t necessarily really going to happen, but it was real in the sense that Cory really thought it was a real opportunity.

Ah…I see. Man, that’s so interesting! There’s like a real harmony there between the fiction and the non-fiction aspects and yeah, it really comes out to something super unique and unexpected.

Mike Ott: Yeah. And I mean, you know, this last scene where he calls Henning and you can kind of hear me yell cut and you can hear Cory crying.

That was one thing where I really f*cked up because we should have kept it rolling. Because Cory, he broke down in a way like I’ve never seen a breakdown, you know, sobbing uncontrollably, we had to call Henning back and that was the moment we had to like kind of show the artifice to Cory. That it was all a joke, that Henning wasn’t really mad at him. And even when Cory watches that scene, like we did a test screening of the movie and that was the first time Cory saw it, when that scene happened, like, Cory was crying through the entire scene.

So I mean like when you made that revelation to him, like, what was his reaction?

Mike Ott: I mean, not very shocked! And that’s the thing is like, I don’t know if he kind of knew it was all bull shit the entire time, or if he’s like playing along with me or…you know. He was kind of just like…I mean that’s the thing, we never really discussed it. Like, you know, he was just acting, “he was just giving you a hard time for the movie.” He was like, (Cory voice) “OK, but, you know, I just don’t like that he said that, because he’s one of my good friends.” So again, like how the information is being interpreted through Cory’s brain I don’t totally know. He never once asked, like, “so am I going to Germany to make the movie?” You know?

Well, I mean he’s obviously been going to festivals with you and watching the film, so it’s not as though there are any hard feelings about it. But I mean, yeah, in that moment where in the film you hear him sobbing it’s like, “Oh wow, he’s really feeling this.”

Mike Ott: Yeah, I mean he feels everything so intensely, which is what’s beautiful about him. He’s like such a raw nerve, like everything’s exposed. But then I was super mad because he did actually get to go to Germany. He went to go for the premiere in Berlin. So it was this weird thing where he actually was in Berlin, but, you know, not necessarily for the same reason, but for the movie.

Yeah, everything happens as it should I guess. So where do you go from here?, what’s, what’s your next project? Are you gonna kind of keep moving towards non-fiction? Are you going to stay in the middle ground. What are you thinkin’?

Mike Ott: I mean I don’t know…It’s always one of those things like trying to get the next project is always such a, you know what I mean? Like where to start? I wrote a script with Alex [Gioulakis], who’s one of the producers on the movie, we wrote a script that we’re trying to get made, but it’s like much more money and you know, it’s always pushing that boulder up the hill. I don’t know if that’ll happen.

But otherwise, I mean this kind of world of like, you know, between fiction and non-fiction is the thing that interests me the most, you know? Those are the movies that I see that I’m excited about. But it’s also a weird road because, you know, it’s always impossible to try to find money for stuff like this, you know?

For sure. Well I mean, I hope you can do it because, I’m being a hundred percent honest, I had never seen anyone pull it off the way you did.

Mike Ott: Thanks man.

I know I’ve been asking all these questions about what’s real or not, but none of it matters. It’s just a great, entertaining movie. I just want to keep watching it again and again.

Mike Ott: Aw thanks man, that’s super cool.

Yeah, I mean, I want to show it to my friends, I want to get as many people as I can to see it. So do you have any sort of distribution set-up yet?

Mike Ott: Yeah actually, surprisingly yeah. I really didn’t know like how… because all my other films that have either, like, when I’ve gotten distribution it’s been like way down the road or you know, at some tiny place. So I think we have a couple offers so I think by the first of the year it will definitely be out like on Amazon and all those things.

By the first of 2018?

Mike Ott: Yeah. So I think we’re going to continue with the festival circuit til the end of the year, and then I think it should be released at the beginning of the year for sure. So I’m super excited about that. Um but yeah mean, I don’t know, I’ll try to make something else. I mean, it’s always so daunting.

Yeah man. Well, you should. I hope that you can ride on this as long as you can because it’s definitely deserving. I just, yeah, I really love the film, it was one of my favorite films at the festival.

Mike Ott: Oh thanks man.

Yeah, I just can’t stop telling people about it!

Mike Ott: Have you seen Actor Martinez? The one I did with Nathan Silver?

OK, no, I’d love to see that.

Mike Ott: Yeah. I mean I did this documentary that I think you’ll dig, it’s where I found Cory. I used to teach at this junior college and I had this really kind of unctuous student who was going to make this like Scorsese type movie about murder and rape and drugs and I told him not to make it and he said he was going to make it anyways, so we documented the making of this movie, which is kind of like the Community College version of American Movie. Not nearly as good of course.

But Cory shows up one day on set, so that’s how we found him. And Cory shows up on set because he wants to get his foot into the industry of Hollywood and the whole focus of the documentary just kind of switches to Cory and he falls in love with the makeup girl, he like breaks down on set all the time, he’s smoking weed on set. And he kind of ruins the movie because he’s so much more interesting than the guy that we’re following.

But everyone…it’s my least successful movie as far as like, it didn’t play anywhere, I think everyone thought it was fake because all the characters are so over the top. But it’s definitely like the funniest thing I’ve ever made. I think you’ll dig it. [That movie is Kid Icarus and I totally dug it]

Oh Man, I can’t wait. Before I let you go, you know, we’re in this moment of truth and facts and maybe not so much truth and maybe not so much facts. You’re really playing with all of that, but you can arrive at a truth with fiction as much as you can with non-fiction. How, do you see the kind of film that you make operating within this zeitgeist where nothing’s necessarily real.?

Mike Ott: Yeah…well, I think it just comes down to like, no one really cares, you know? At the end of the day, like you know, people’re like “how would I really believe in whether it’s true or false?” It’s interesting. But  especially I think we live in a time like no other time where like, you know, some Trump thing where he says something on TV and then the next day someone says, “you said x, y, and z.” And he goes, “no, I never said that.” They literally like show him the tape of what he said, and he goes, “no I didn’t say it.” They’re like, “OK, moving on.”

You know what I mean? Which is just like such a…like never ever in history can you imagine a time like that, you know? So I don’t know. But also just the times between making stuff, like I feel like in my past movies some of the realist moments that I’ve ever created are moments that were totally fictionalized and some of the most false moments are the ones that are like, you know, honest, like fly-on-the-wall kind of moments, you know what I mean?

And this idea of, like, when people are performing, I’m really interested in…there’s that scene in the movie where Carolan does her Oscar speech and I remember the first take she did it, it was good, but she fumbled some lines and I said “OK, let’s do it again.” But I was like “f*ck, we kind of blew our load, she’s not gonna be able to do it again.” And she did like, seven times in a row, cried at the same moment, took beats at the same moment. And you start realizing like how much of this real life story is its own performance, you know what I mean?

Oh yeah. I mean from the get of the film, you know, when we get the auditions, I feel like you were setting us up for the idea of performance as documentary, you know, cause these are…in effect they’re “scripted” because they’re reading a monologue. But it’s very much like a real account of these people and the things they find important. And you know, it’s like there’s…the documentary is in the performance. You’re getting something deep about these people through their acting.

Mike Ott: Yeah. I also think with like the creation of reality tv, like how people just even just started talking once the cameras around, you know what I mean? Like people want to have their moment where they cry because you know, they see The Real World, and they realized that every character has their moment where they go home and find out someone that… you know what I mean? Like just this whole weird performance thing of real life that I find really interesting and confusing and nebulous, I don’t know.

Yeah, yeah. Like just kind of a simulacra of, you know, there’s the art that’s supposed to reflect the life, but then, you know, people see the art and they think that’s what life is. So they try and become that.

Mike Ott: Totally. Then you’d have no idea like what is…even Cory, where he tells the story about f*cking the dude and like getting his dick sucked, and kind of like, “don’t ever tell anyone about this.” Like I’ve heard him tell that story like 30 times while I’ve been friends with him, you know what I mean? Where it’s always like telling someone who he says “OK, but please don’t tell anyone.” and then literally walking into the next room and telling the story.

And that seems too, like, every time I watch that scene, man… like when he talks about being picked on and his voice and you know, it’s so authentic and genuine, but at the same time, like he’s told the story so many times that it’s like its own performance to kind of get sympathy. He knows how people are gonna react when he tells the story, and then it’s just very interesting to me that he’s always like, “please don’t.” Like even when we were shooting that scene, you know, the camera’s there, he could see the boom dangling over his head and he’s like, “OK, just between me and you, John, please.”

You start wondering like, how much of this is authentic in its own sense, even though it is.

Yeah, well I mean maybe it’s just like you said. Maybe he’s really like 10 steps ahead of all of us.

Mike Ott: He definitely is. Oh Man, I’m so excited for you to see Kid Icarus, man. It’s like his best stuff. I mean, he’s so incredible in it.

Film Inquiry thanks Mike Ott for taking the time to speak with us.

California Dreams is now (finally) available to stream on Amazon prime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ZmqXRN60B4o