“I Just Feel Like It’s Time That We All Help Each Other.” Interview With COLETTE Star Denise Gough

I was able to talk with the wonderful Denise Gough, who plays Missy in the new film Colette. The film follows the life of young Parisian Colette, played by Keira Knightley, who writes novels that her husband Willy (Dominic West) takes credit for. More than that, though, it’s about female empowerment and sexuality, in a time when women especially were not able to freely do what they wanted without criticism.

Denise, who has been a stage actress for many years, has one of her most memorable film roles yet. As Missy, (Mathilde de Morny) she plays one of Colette’s love interests and confidantes, as well as a brave individual willing to be themselves at all costs. We discussed her gender defying character, the history of the real-life people the film is based on, and how she hopes it begins some positive change!

Kristy Strouse for Film Inquiry: I loved the film, you were terrific as Missy!

Denise Gough: Thanks!

My only regret with the film was that there wasn’t more of you!

Denise Gough: It is the ultimate regret. That there wasn’t more me. [laughs]

I was surprised that you didn’t come into sooner, but that’s the progression of Colette’s story.

Denise Gough: Yeah, and you saw a lot of the early life to set up where she comes from. But yeah, I could have always done with more Missy. She should have a film of her own. Even if it’s not me who plays her. She a interesting character, right?

Definitely, I think that’s a great idea, and you should play her!

Denise Gough: It’s an amazing story, do you know much about her?

I didn’t prior to the film, no. That was actually one of my questions for you, how much did you know prior to getting involved?

Denise Gough: Not much, but I knew nothing about Colette either. Like I was saying yesterday in interviews, growing up in Ireland, these women aren’t part of our history books. And they should be, but like so much other stuff, the history books are written mostly by men. So, we don’t hear about these incredible people, women. So, I didn’t know anything until I was sent the script, and then I started researching. I was actually surprised by how little information there is on her. So, Wash [Westmoreland], the director, got me really involved in who she was and she is incredible.

So, is that primarily how you learned about them, or did you do some research yourself? I know you said there wasn’t much available.

Denise Gough: Yes, but then once you sign on to the film they give you everything, with huge amounts of research and information available. Like any job they make sure you are really well informed, so they make everything they can available to you. So, then I learned about it. They kind of do that with jobs, they are sort of my education. I feel really lucky in what I do, I get educated on all my jobs. Now I know as much as there is to know about her I guess.

That’s terrific, I’m sure it makes it a lot easier. How did you first get involved, sent the script?

Denise Gough: Well Wash came to see me in a play and then, I got sent the script and was asked to put myself on tape. I did and then, there was some issues because I was doing the play Angels in America. There was some issues with dates, but then it all worked out. I was really surprised because I’m not really well-known in film. I thought it was amazing that he casted someone theatrical opposite Keira, ya know? I’m sure he could have had many other people with far more of a profile than I did. So, I was really thrilled that they went with me.

Me too! As I said I thought you were perfect in this particular role. You are very confident as Missy, who was really a pioneer at the time, as was Colette.

Denise Gough: Yeah! She was amazing. If you think about it, we live in a world now where it’s easier to decide what we want to identify as and who we want to identify as. But back then it wasn’t. And she even said, in the film, there’s a line where she says “I know that it is easier for me than a woman of no means,” because she really checked her privilege. Because she was a noblewoman, so it was easier for her to decide, despite being illegal she would wear suits and identify and present herself as a man. She would have been referred to what was known as an invert back then. Because there wasn’t a word for a lesbian or trans or anything like that then. She was really courageously living how she identified which is amazing.

Yeah, and I was even surprised that women couldn’t wear suits.

Denise Gough: Yeah! You couldn’t even wear trousers, like we weren’t allowed to wear them. So, they were renegades, these women. It’s kind of easy to look at it as a costume, but it’s a hugely political act they were making. In the scene where Keira arrives in the suit as well – back then it was massive to do that. It wasn’t as simple. We don’t realize, really, how far we’ve come, I think, in terms of all of that stuff. But back then, and Missy lived a very thwarted life as well, she tried to commit suicide by committing hara-kiri on herself and then was arrested for that. Then wound up killing herself by putting her head in the oven. So, it wasn’t without difficulty, that they lived that way. Ya know?

Yes, I actually read that. I was sad to find that out. I can only imagine how much harder it was then.

Denise Gough: Yeah, I think we take it for granted. What they were doing back then was really quite incredible.

Were there any additional challenges because you were playing a real-life person?

Denise Gough: Well, I don’t find acting really difficult. I wanted to make sure that I went as far as I could possibly go with it. Like I do with anything. No, I feel a lot of joy when I get to play any character. I trust my ability to do my job. I feel like it is important that I trust my ability to do it, because I’ve been given the part. You want to do everything you can to pay homage to the person who lived, but at the same time, I’m not her. I can only give my offering as her, and I’m happy with the offering I made.

The movie is really relevant. Do you think the timing of this release, with #metoo and #timesup, is especially so?

Denise Gough: Yeah, because we were just finishing up filming when all of the Weinstein stuff happened. Though when we were making it, it wasn’t such a profound connection. By the end it was like “oh my god” there is a huge shift happening in society. And now the timing of it being released it’s like it couldn’t come at a better time. That’s why I think it’ll have such relevance. Because it is very important to be watching stories of female empowerment now, and also watching women and people empowering each other in film.

Absolutely! You’ve had a lot of experience in theater. You’ve been on Broadway. Missy was also on stage with Colette.

Denise Gough: Only once! She never went back on stage after the kiss.

Right, after the riot that happened.

Denise Gough: Yeah, I think she was desperately uncomfortable on stage. She wasn’t a performer. But then she spent seven years traveling around with Colette as Colette performed. So, she was like a shadow artist I guess. She inspired, and pushed Colette to do stuff like this, but she herself didn’t. Missy wasn’t someone who enjoyed being on stage. Totally opposite to me.

Understandable especially, given how the one time went. Well you’ve done theater, TV, film, you have even done the voice for video games like Witcher 3. I’m a fan of the game, so it’s pretty cool that you are Yennifer!

Denise Gough: Oh wow, that’s amazing that you know that! There are like sound guys on TV shows that I’ve done that suddenly get really weird with me, because they recognize my voice. [Whispers] “Oh my god, you’re from Witcher!”

It makes sense, given Yennifer’s character.

Denise Gough: I didn’t realize anybody knew, or played that game, but it is actually huge.

Yeah it is, it’s actually becoming a TV show. Is there a medium that you enjoy most? I’m guessing theater.

Denise Gough: Theater. That’s everything, everything, everything. But I’m loving film, and I’m doing a film at the moment that I’m really enjoying. I’m starting to now get good parts in good films, with good directors.

I recently saw you in Juliet, Naked as well.

Denise Gough: I haven’t seen it, is it good?

Yes!

Denise Gough: Okay, [laughs] cool. I haven’t seen it yet.

You should check it out! Did you always want to act?

Denise Gough: Yeah, but I didn’t quite know. I look at my little nephew now and I think that’s what I was like, I was always pretending. I didn’t necessarily know, because I didn’t want movies and want to be in movies. I knew as soon as I got on stage that that was where I felt most calm and at home. But I remember that I was always pretending to be Richard for two years, my name was Richard and I pretended to be Richard because I wanted to be MacGyver. I wanted to be the actor playing MacGyver. I didn’t just want to be MacGyver.

So, I was pretty specific in my pretending. I would pretend to be French a lot, which is funny, that I was pretending to be French since I played Missy. So, I’d do this a lot, and it was never really possible because I’m from the west of Ireland, so acting is not really a thing, as a job. Then I left home when I was very young, and I went to drama school when I was twenty and I knew for sure, that it was what I wanted to do with my life. But it was always theater. When I met my first agent I had a shaved head and I only wanted to be taken serious as a theater actress. So, obviously that’s changed because I’ll never buy a house if I only do theater. [Laughs] No, it’s not just for the money.

Were there any actors or actresses, any productions that were inspirations for you?

Denise Gough: I don’t know. There are people who I think are brilliant now, but not really back then. I didn’t look at anyone and think “I want to be like that.” Because it was the stage, and I never really went to the theater. So, I didn’t know anyone, and I’m not really good at heroes either. Apart from now, I think, Linda Jackson, is a person that I want to be like.

Do you look for something in particular when accepting roles? Or anything in particular that you’d love to do?

Denise Gough: I’d like to do the play that I did last year, People, Places and Things, on Broadway. So hopefully we can make that happen. I’m not finished with that, and I’d like to make that into a film. We’ll see how that goes. I want to play, and it feels so stupid calling us “real women” but for so long we have been one-dimensional on screen. Like I watched a clip of something with Marlon Brando the other day, and the only woman in it, her job was to run up and bang on the door, as he was acting his socks off. And I thought, f*ck, this is what we’ve been doing for years. Women knocking on doors or looking worried. So, I want to do big women. And by that I just mean women who feel everything. Do you know what I mean?

I do, yes.

Denise Gough: I’m probably not explaining it well, but I want to play someone who isn’t just someone’s wife or someone’s girlfriend, best friend or the kooky girl. I want to play women.

Yeah, real.

Denise Gough: Yes, real, ugly, f*cked up, brilliant. Everything.

In all our different shades.

Denise Gough: Yeah! We are way more interesting than we’ve been portrayed for a long time. Ya know? Of course, you know, you are in film. You read and watch, so you’ve seen it as well. So, hopefully the parts are getting better.

Hopefully. I think there’s definitely change in the air.

Denise Gough: Yeah, we’re talking about it at least, but it can’t just be conversation it has to be action. And also, for me, it’s not about smashing a patriarch as much as it is about raising a matriarch to meet it. I think there is room for both. I don’t want to be in a world with only women. I want it to be balanced, and I’m doing a film in Greece at the moment and there is such a brilliant balance of power in Greece. It feels like they’ve got something really special over there where they understand how incredible women are, how fierce they are. And that goes way back in their history, to like Greek tragedy and stuff.

Yeah and I think you put that wonderfully, with the matriarch and patriarch.

Denise Gough: Yeah, I just don’t understand, I don’t want to be standing and screaming, pointing my finger at men. I love men. I just feel like it’s time that we all help each other. I feel like it has a lot to do with women taking responsibility with how maybe we haven’t supported each other either, to be our best selves all the time. Because it’s been difficult, but now we can change that. I don’t want to be part of the superficial history, I don’t want to be part of a humanhood. If that’s a word, I’m sorry I’m so jetlagged that I’m making things up.

No! You sound great! Maybe jetlag is the key.

Denise Gough: To all interviews! [laughs] Be jetlagged and drink f*ck loads of coffee and then talk to everyone.

But no, you are quite eloquent I assure you. Earlier you mentioned filming a new movie, can you tell us about that at all?

Denise Gough: I’m doing a film called Monday with Sebastian Stan, who is brilliant. And we’re doing a film about an American couple in Greece who are like… the director calls it “a romantic comedy gone wrong” and it’s completely wild and all improvised. And we’re working with a Greek director who did an incredible film called Sun Tan. Have you seen it?

No, I haven’t.

Denise Gough: Oh, it is f*cking great! Really, really, really great. So, this is his first English language film and we are having a really great time doing it.

That’s great, you are still filming?

Denise Gough: Yeah. I go back tomorrow for another two and a half months. I’m trying to learn Greek and everything.

Sounds like a fun film to work on, and the beautiful locale helps!

Denise Gough: Yeah, especially after like two years of Angels in America. I needed to do something that was about being like purely creative and joyful, and having fun. We are doing all of that while also doing some pretty intense material.

How do you think Missy and Colette’s story will resonate with people?

Denise Gough: I think the thing that I was talking about, with the kind of empowering of women, like watching. There’s a scene with Missy where she says to Colette “you should take credit for it” when she’s worked out that Colette has written all the Claudine novels. She’s created Claudine. She actually wrote letters to Willy. There are all these letters between Colette and Missy and Willy. Missy was a force of good in Colette’s creativity and I feel like we can do that more for each other as women. I spoke with a brilliant female director last night. She said she wanted to make a film, and she was at something, and she said, “somebody should make a film of this, and oh I know a lot of filmmakers.” And she said it was so long before she realized that “Oh I should do it.” “I’m the person who should make this film.”

I just thought it was just incredible that it still takes a little while for us to realize we’re the ones, as women, who can do that. Sometimes it takes another person, another woman-man whatever, to help encourage us to step into our power. And I think it’s not just Missy that did that with Colette. Like if you look there’s a character called Wague, who my best friend Dickie Beau plays and they all encourage this woman to step into her light. We need to do that for each other.

Yeah and hopefully seeing this film can help inspire that, especially since it happened so long ago.

Denise Gough: Yeah and at a time when it was much harder! We just must be careful of the expectations we put on each other as women too. Sometimes we have to take responsibility, we haven’t always been each other’s best friends. Which is why the toxic masculinity thing and the power dynamics have been so f*cked up. We have to take responsibility for our part, that way we can make changes, but if we only blame men for what’s happened we’re in trouble. We have to understand that maybe, by not recognizing how powerful we are, we drop the ball somewhere.

Definitely. Great answer! Again, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me – I know you are busy!

Denise Gough: Hey, I’m here, getting to do what I’ve always wanted to do. A job that I love. Everybody is running around putting makeup on me and putting me in fancy dresses. [Laughs]

We want to thank Denise Gough for taking the time to speak with us.

Colette will be released September 21^st in the US and January 25^th in the UK.