Interview With Debra Granik, Director Of LEAVE NO TRACE

As a fan of Debra Granik’s style and her dedication to detail, especially in the Oscar nominated film Winter’s Bone, I was excited to see her newest feature Leave no Trace. It exceeded expectations, quickly becoming one of my favorites so far this year.

This gentle story follows Will (Ben Foster) and his daughter Tom (Thomasin Mckenzie), and when we are first introduced to the pair they’re living in the California woods. He’s raised her to be skilled in survival, and they live off the grid. When Tom is spotted by a hiker, the remote life they’re used to is taken away. The two are left wondering (specifically Tom) if this is what they truly want, and also if it is what’s best.

Leave No Trace is beautifully filmed, the performances are incredibly effective, and the characters feel real. I expect we’ll see a lot more of young Thomasin Mckenzie after a role such as this, much like Winter’s Bone did for Jennifer Lawrence. It is a moving, intimate story that’s poised, yet wild at heart.

I had the opportunity to speak with writer/director Debra Granik about the process from book to screen, and how they filmed Leave No Trace.

Kristy Strouse for Film Inquiry: Thanks for taking the time today. I really loved the film! This movie is adapted from the book “My Abandonment” by Peter Rock, how and when did you first discover the book?

Debra Granik: I was shown the book from two producers, one out of Boston and one out of New York (Anne Harrison and Linda Reisman). They had optioned the book and held onto it for a couple of years, until finally a space opened up in my life where I could receive the book, and I really appreciated it. Me and my producing partner, Anna Rosellini, both read the books and then we talk right afterwards. Both of us had a really good movie play out for us. You know, when you read it and the movie plays in your head?

You see the characters, and you try to conjure the environment. All those descriptions play out and I thought “gosh this is a really textured and rich environment, very dramatic.” There are these dark firs that are so tall, with moss, heavy rain. And a family that lived undetected next to a big city. I was filled with a sense of wonder about how that could be filmed, but I also got the sense that it would be very textured and beautiful.

I like both the protagonists, and I liked that he had a very complex psychiatric inner life. She was so observant, and such a precise person. The whole package of the book, well…package sounds kind of crass, but the elements of the book, the ingredients, felt as if they’d be very ripe for adaptation. So, we said yes.

And that comes through in the film, that texture and beauty. You co-wrote the screenplay with Peter Rock, as well as Anna Rosellini. Can you walk us through the process of adapting?

WARNING: Spoilers in answer

Debra Granik: The book was based on a small article that Peter had seen that mentioned this park in Portland that was very beloved, and a family had been found, a father and daughter undetected. They had been living there for many years without ever being noticed. It really sparked a sense of wonder, “what did their daily life look like?” Only six things were known, so he had to imagine a lot of that.

Then I followed his novel very closely for the first half, and then the second half the screenplay deviates very dramatically from the book. That was something that we spoke about, and he said “If you are seeing it differently, where your imagination brings you, you should look into that and write a version of the screenplay that is different and see what you think of it.” I loved getting that kind of encouragement, and I tried it. We really felt good about the fact that in the screenplay the father doesn’t die, but in the novel he does. That was something that felt really important for me to investigate, because I felt differently.

So, the adaptation process was malleable and ever-changing, but the last thing we always do when we adapt, Anna and I, is we try to match it to the environment.  We try to find out what from the fiction can we find, and where it matches to, in lived experience. Real people, real places, and real practices. Devotional dance, 4H, things that are really done in those coordinates. We love to then add the anthropological details, the anthropology of the Pacific Northwest in 2017, what do we find when we really go there?

That’s a great answer. The casting was terrific. Ben Foster and Thomasin Mckenzie, who play the two main characters, are perfect for the roles. They have a connection that makes it easy to believe that they’re father and daughter. Can you tell us about how you found them?

Debra Granik: Well, you never know that’s going to happen when you’re casting. We were lucky we found both those actors. Tom really communicated the ways in which she imagined the character, and the ways she felt she had similarities to the character. I loved hearing that depth of imagination, and hearing what she was going to bring to it.

And then with Ben, I really appreciated in his previous work that he had examined the lives of veterans, and he had the opportunity to speak with them. He had made it his life’s work to understand some part of that experience. And I thought that was going to be extremely rich and usable. It would be a foundation for the character that he was going to play.

They both brought these attributes that were ultimately irresistible, and I thought “wow, both of these people are going to bring so much to the story.” And they had a great rapport with each other because they did primitive skill training together. They had a wonderful outdoor survival skills teacher.

I was actually going to ask about that, because when we see them living out on their own, surviving in the wilderness, they seem comfortable and confident in their skills.

Debra Granik: We had a woman who was very well known in the pacific northwest because she accomplished a very large feat of surviving for 45 days in the kind of forest that you see them in. With two tools, she was very resourceful. So, they really liked her, and felt inspired by her, and they ended up having a whole lot to do with each other.

They learned knives together, they learned how to build a fire and how to eat off the fire, together. They learned how to build an emergency shelter for when you get caught out there, without the proper ways to stay warm. We knew this was going to be great material, where they could actually look one another in the eye, and participate with each other, these activities on screen.

How long was the preparation for that?

Debra Granik: They had complete immersion where they would go off with Nicole for two days, and then another day they would procure knives and learn how to use them. On maybe they fourth day they worked with another outdoor survival teacher that Nicole knew, who had military experience, and Ben really bonded with him. He also worked with him on how to actually  break the branches and learn the actual architecture of how you make a survival shelter. The layers, the bows of trees… everything you would do to insulate, and how to obtain fresh water.

I would say, they got a good amount of skills training. It wasn’t always one like ten-hour period, sometimes they’d do it for a couple hours and then do something else to prepare for the film, maybe get their costumes to work. Ben took a real interest in trying to construct some of the clothing he was going to wear. He actually picked out some of the clothing that he thought the character would wear, and then they’d have to go out and get it muddy. [laughter]

Then they also did some rehearsing at the campsite, the place that was their home in the film. They spent time there alone. We asked if we could come film, without the crew, just me and Michael the DP, photographing a little of what they were doing. So, we’d just start to storyboard a little bit of our ideas, and get an idea of what the space was like and what the blocking would be like. Meanwhile, they had to sort of set it up with the production company, and make it their own.

Well, it really made a difference! I always love the authenticity in your films, and this really seemed natural for them. Speaking of Ben, his character Will, suffers from PTSD, but it’s a very subtle and sort of restrained performance. Which I found very powerful. Can you talk about how you wanted to portray this?

Debra Granik: Yeah, I’m interested in Post Traumatic growth as well, and right now we’re in a stage where sometimes the understanding can be very profound of what happens to combat veterans after the war – as well as with people who withstand trauma of other kinds. I think we never had enough language or space to talk about post traumatic growth, which would be what happens when you figure out a lifestyle that sustains, until the point that people tell you you’re living on public land. Like with Will.

What I mean by that is stripping down his life, stopping his medications from the VA, simplifying and putting a hedge of protection between him and a world that he might have found invasive, digital and overwhelming. He had derived some coping mechanisms, and he got closure to some of the things he actually believed in. I think his experience had changed him in a lot of ways, and left him possibly less physically able to cope, with the amplified chatter of the outside world, but it maybe left him with a clearer sense of what matters to him. These are speculative thoughts here of course. [laughter]

They all make sense, and I love that you consider the character so deeply.

Debra Granik:  So, with post traumatic syndrome, I would say that I am very interested in all the research that the VA, authors and veterans have done, to try and explain things and start a discussion. Prior to coming into this film, I worked on one in southern Missouri with a Vietnam-era veteran, and the film is called Stray Dog. In that film I learned so much, because he was willing to have a very in-depth conversation with me, over a period of three years.

We filmed what it’s like to find out that many, many years after the war is when you are really going to confront your ghosts and your PTS. It may not be in the first seven years or the first ten years, and it comes in waves. All different people handle it differently. But the suicide rate has been high since Vietnam, very high with combat veterans. I wanted to take in all of these factors because its such a big part of our national heritage. The long era of Vietnam, and the long era of the sand wars. I wanted to come at PTSD from many different sources, and then Ben did a lot to amalgamate, and then pick what was right for his character, and what resonated the most. What he was dwelling on the most, and what seared into him.

That’s amazing, and I think his performance reflected that. When you consider the lifestyle they’ve created, do you think in our time now, with everything being known with electronics, on social media etc… do you think it’s possible to live outside the system like they do?

Debra Granik: I think it takes incredible discipline and unbelievable fresh thinking. You have to be so determined, and it would be very hard. I was just thinking about the musician, the national treasure, who sings the closing song. Her name is Kendra Smith, and she lives off the grid very substantially in northern California. She would have to travel over seven miles so she could send the music for us by dropbox. She would have to go these great distances to get a signal, just to receive my emails, and then send something back to me.

So, she chose this for a whole host of reasons, and to see how simply she could live. She still wants to be an artist, and she makes her music. I’m very in awe of people who make very determined decisions, and it requires a lot of effort to commit to the lifestyle they’re choosing. When it’s non-confirming, when it’s not the prescribed one of what we consider the flow of the mainstream, I’m always filled with both admiration and wonderment. Like: how are you doing this? What’s it like? Why are you doing it? How do you stay committed?

It is fascinating, and I have a similar response myself. It’s an appealing idea to an extent, but it would take a lot of dedication, especially depending on where you decide to live. In this film, there are a lot of outdoor shots of the Pacific Northwest. You do a great job of showing the beauty and tranquility, but also how harsh it can be – especially later in the movie. Did you encounter any challenges filming in outdoor conditions?

Debra Granik: We were very, very lucky that the crew we shot with was Oregon based, so they were from right there and they knew how to do it. They were waterproof in a way I had never seen. They could even advise you of what raincoat to wear, one that won’t get wet after seven hours of being outside. [laughter]

Often, it was just a drizzle, so it wasn’t so bad. At one point, a storm kind of did brew, and they knew what widow makers were, they knew what happens when a mossy branch gets too heavy and it might crack. They knew certain protocols in a big forest to abide by and be aware of to get out of harms way. You can’t control it all, but mostly it was more on the mundane side of things. Like, if the mic would hear raindrops on the roof and it would impede our ability to record dialogue, then they would put a little fiberglass on top of the tent in a way that you couldn’t see. That way it would absorb the raindrops, and the recording of the actor’s dialogue would be clear of rain. We could get ambient- that was no problem, but you don’t want it overshadowing their dialogue.

Those are kind of things that we loved, those of us not from Oregon, learning from them. I would say it was actually quite pleasurable to be in such a sort of, sacred land. That temperate rain forest is one of America’s greatest treasures. It stretches from California all the way up into Canada. It’s kind of outstanding, I mean, you get spiritual just being there because there are these ancient trees, and old growth is -to say the least- monumental. [laughter]

Definitely, I can see that! Thank you for sharing those details, it’s really interesting to hear about. What’s coming up next for you? I know this came after a few year hiatus.

Debra Granik: Yeah, never a hiatus really though! [Laughter] I’m always working. But narratives are harder to get off the ground and documentaries are very immediate. You don’t have to ask anyone’s permission, you don’t have to sell it. A documentary you can just launch into, and say “this moves me, and I’m attracted to this, so I’m going to bring my camera and talk to someone.”

So, what’s next is I want to finish the documentary we had started just before Leave No Trace. We were deep into that, been filming for three years, so we have to finish it. And then we had a narrative project that’s ironically based on non-fiction, a book by Barbara Ehrenreich called Nickel and Dimed. Which was a sociological study that she did in the 90’s that she updated, and it’s very relevant to right now, about how to get by on minimum wage. It sort of chronicles the crimes against poor people.

We did this long, weird sided sort of war against poor people, and found every which way to squeeze them, and wage-theft them. It’s this hideous, cruel, bizarre sort of treatment. And I don’t understand why. People work so hard, and then we’re mean to them, as a society. You know?

Yeah, it’s horrible, and we’ll probably never completely know why.

Debra Granik:  It’s confounding to say the least. It’ll have humor! It’ll have humor too! [Laughter] I don’t want to be the person associated with the downer beat. To survive that you need humor. It’s a weapon, you can’t survive without it.

I completely agree! We look forward to seeing that. Thank you so much for talking to me today!                                  

Debra Granik:  Thank you, and thank you for taking such an interest in the film! 

Film Inquiry thanks Debra Granik for taking the time to speak with us.

Leave No Trace will be released in theaters in the US and UK on June 29, 2018. For all international release dates, see here.