“If I’m going to do this I’m going to do my own take on it” Interview With Amber Sealey, Director of NO MAN OF GOD

The taut and compelling No Man of God gives us a new perspective on a serial killer that’s been grazing the screen for quite some time, Ted Bundy. After its premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival in June, the film now has its theatrical release. I was able to speak with the director Amber Sealey about her vision for the project, her attraction to taking on this daunting task, and how this is a different kind of Ted Bundy story.

This interview had been edited for clarity.

This is Kristy Strouse with Film Inquiry: Thanks for speaking to me today and congrats on the film! How did you first get involved with the project?

Amber Sealey: I got the script to consider, and I read it and my first thought was, like… another movie about Bundy? What? I kind of looked up how many movies have been made, including documentaries and there were a lot and I just thought well, if I’m going to do this I’m going to do my own take on it, you know? I wanted to kind of step away from the traditional film about Bundy. So, I went in there with my pitch and fully expecting them to say that’s a little weird for us or whatever, and instead, they said yeah great we love it!

And I was interested in SpectreVision as a company and Elijah [Wood] I’ve always been a fan of. And so I thought, you know, let’s try this! And I said to them, at the end of the interview, I said you know it’s completely fine if you guys don’t hire me but you have to hire a woman director! You cannot make a movie about two men sitting in a room talking about raping and murdering women, and not have a female director in this day and age! And, they were like, we totally agree. And then everything just happened really fast from there, I think I got hired a few days later and then we started in prep, and then the pandemic happened, so we had to shut down for the whole spring and summer, and we ended up shooting in September.

That’s something that popped up in my head too when I first heard about this film because there have been so many things about Ted Bundy, but this is very different. So, it’s safe to assume this wasn’t something you would have imagined yourself directing?

Amber Sealey:  Not at all! That was part of what attracted me to it, I was like, who would ever think of an Amber Sealey Bundy movie? No one would have put these two together and that’s kind of what I liked about it because I was like, that’s sort of interesting that I wouldn’t have even assumed that I would direct this kind of thing and neither would have anybody else! That also just kind of made me curious about SpectreVision and their choices too and I was like, this is cool, they’re willing to take risks and I liked that.

Were you familiar with this story at all?

Amber Sealey: I think everyone’s sort of familiar with some parts. My mother has a friend who was actually one of his dry run victims, as he called them. She survived, but he was one of the ones he picked up and drove around. So, I knew who he was, obviously, I wasn’t intimately involved in his crime, because I’m not somebody who’s really interested in that topic you know, I don’t like to look up the gruesomeness of that kind of stuff. What I wasn’t familiar with was Bill Hagmaier, his story, and who he was. That was another thing that really drew me and was like this actually isn’t a Bundy movie, it’s a Bill movie. It is more about their relationship, the way these two perform for each other and both are trying desperately to get what they want from the other one while also really forging a kind of odd friendship and love between each other. That really, really fascinated me.

I think that’s what really made this movie stand out, and it was very interesting to me as well. How much was Bill Hagmaier involved in the process?

Amber Sealey: Yeah, very much so, he’s an executive producer. Most of the script was taken from the actual recording Bill himself had made in the room with Bundy. He still had all those recordings and he gave them to all of us, that’s what the script was based on. There is a lot in that script that is verbatim with what they actually said to each other. And then Bill, he is just such a lovely guy. He’s so generous with time, in spirit, and such a humble guy. He was really available, I mean, the writer spoke to him when he was writing the script and I spoke to him again I did a pass on writing it. But I was also calling him or emailing him almost daily, asking him things like, “What color was your belt? What did your hair look like?” So, yeah, he was just a great, a really great resource, and a big supporter of the film and supporter of mine and is really a lovely guy.

That’s wonderful, I love to hear it because I imagine he had a lot more to add to give more context to the experiences. 

Amber Sealey: There’s a lot that is inspired by conversations that the writer or myself had with him. And then there’s a lot that is the way I interpreted what it must be like to be inside Bill’s head, being so close to evil.

Yeah, which is I think very evident, especially in one particular scene where Ted kind of lets him in (as much as he ever did with anyone). How important were the details for you?

Amber Sealey: You know certain parts of it were like I was not interested at all in Elijah or Luke [Kirby] and being like a caricature of either of them. What I said to them was, look, it doesn’t matter if you look like him or walk like him. Obviously, there are things you can watch, as their interviews, and get inspired by them and I think Luke does that a lot. The way he would hold his hands, held his head you know a lot of that was pulled from his own research, but to me, what mattered more was the performances that groundedness in reality. Also, their relationship mattered more than that if they were actually talking like or behaving moving like the real people.

Then when it comes to production design that was very important to me like I hate nothing more than those that are meant to look 80s but are not really 80s. Like Urban Outfitters has this sort of retro line of stuff, but I can tell the difference between the stitching and the seams, and stuff is different. It is really important to me that all of the clothing be authentic, from the time period and all of the furniture be authentic to the time period, and the hair cuts and things like that. So yeah, I felt it was important. We had him there as a resource he could tell us what we had right, so we would try to get things as close to what they really were. And for the most part, we were able to find that stuff.

That’s awesome. Speaking of performances I do think that Luke Kirby was probably the best Bundy that I’ve seen and Elijah is terrific as well. How was it with the casting process of these two, obviously, very dynamic characters?

Amber Sealey: I came to the project, and Elijah, you know, because he’s a producer, he’d be in this world for a few years before I came on. So, he had already decided he wants to play Bill and I was thrilled because I have been a fan of Elijah’s forever and so that wasn’t even a question in my mind. And then I’ve been a fan of Luke for a really long time and it just came to me. I was like oh my god it’s gotta be Luke! There are so many other really talented actors interested in the role and Luke originally turned it down and I had to change that, I was like… you gotta play this part man! I think he’s brilliant. I mean I really think he should get some awards for it because he’s such a talented actor. As you said, I think he’s the best Bundy I have seen. He did it so effortlessly I mean, part of it is, you know, Luke just is able to see that physicality, that sort of late 70s, early 80s macho way of being, and it was a little bit more feminine what was sort of popular back then, and he’s able to listen to that very easily.

It was a dream come true working with both of them, to be honest with you, they both were just game for anything. As a director that’s what you want from your actors, even if they don’t understand what you’re trying to do or disagree, they’ll say I’ll try it because that’s really all I ask is, just try it!  You have to try it with 100% dedication, and then if it doesn’t work, it’ll stay on the editing room floor, you know, not a big deal, but they both were always willing to go all the way, and we just had so much fun! I just love them both. They’re both such sweethearts, and so smart, and kind. I think we had such a great time making the movie because we all were so happy to just be… making a movie you know? I mean our whole industry had been shut down for like six months, and we were like… oh my god are we ever going to get to make art again? And because we are able to do it I think we’re all just thrilled to be together, and we made it through safely with no Covid cases. We were also dealing with the worst fires in history in California and the air quality was bad. So yeah, pandemic and fires and earthquakes, but we were really pretty lucky and blessed.

Absolutely. As we had discussed, you wanted to make something different. How would you describe this to others, what makes No Man of God different?

Amber Sealey: I would say that what stands out to me is that, I’m not a serial killer movie fan, but this is the kind of movie that I would watch. And if you have that thought of like  “ugh, another Bundy movie” then I would say see the movie! Because the movie is commenting on the fact that we as a society are obsessed with serial killers. I think it answers that question or at least asks the question which most movies about serial killers do not.

A part that I’m really proud of is how we brought in, what I would call, the voice of the victims and this sort of female experience of what is it like to be a woman in society, knowing what it feels like to walk down a dark alley and feeling like somebody’s following you behind and getting scared. What is it like to be a woman in society, and also know that we live in a society that’s obsessed with serial killers. That leaves a mark on women. I think that what I tried to do with this film was sort of point that out. And so my hope is that it expands a little, obviously, it’s connected, but it seems a little bit to the side of the most Bundy movies because it’s got some added layers of pointing that question to the audience of like: Hey, why are you watching this? Why are you interested in this,? I hope it makes people kind of look inwards a little bit. Well, as well as having amazing performances by Luke and Elijah, and while hopefully being entertaining!

Very well said! I think that’s a wonderful answer and I think you definitely will be thinking why you like things like this when you watch it. Lastly, what’s next for you?

Amber Sealey: Yeah! My next film is based on a true story, but it is a high-octane teen comedy based on a woman from Texas her name is Shelby Knox. There was a documentary about her at Sundance about 15 years ago, and, and this has become another version of her story and she was really just kind of one of those powerhouse kids who’d like to change the world and she took on her local school board to get them to teach real sex education in her town of Lubbock, which had the highest rate of teen pregnancies and STDs at the time in the whole country, and she’s grown up to become a really awesome queer women’s rights activist. But it’s a comedy and it’s teenagers, but also about a real-life person. I guess that’s my, my niche now. [laughs]

I look forward to it! Thank you and congratulations!

We want to thank Amber Sealey for taking the time to speak with us.

Check out our review of the film at its Tribeca premiere here.

No man of God was released in theaters and VOD on August 27th.